Legislature(1999 - 2000)

02/24/1999 09:05 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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 SENATE BILL NO. 83                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
"An Act making and amending capital, supplemental, and                                                                          
other appropriations, and appropriations to capitalize                                                                          
funds; ratifying certain expenditures; and providing                                                                            
for an effective date."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ANNALEE MCCONNELL, Director, Office of Management and                                                                           
Budget was invited to join the committee.  She introduced                                                                       
Margaret Pugh.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MARGARET PUGH, Commissioner, Department of Correction was                                                                       
invited to join the committee.  She explained the                                                                               
overcrowding situation of the prisons.  They will never be                                                                      
able to have complete control over what happens in the                                                                          
prison settings due to this situation.  She said the amount                                                                     
requested was needed to complete this fiscal year.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
It was explained that prisoners were often in need of                                                                           
medical care because they were coming from outlying areas,                                                                      
especially at the Cook Inlet Pretrial facility.  Because of                                                                     
the volatility of a pretrial institution the situation is                                                                       
less stable.  It is necessary to hold staff at these                                                                            
institutions at a specific level and to not reduce them.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Inmate health care was requesting $500,000 in the                                                                               
supplemental.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DWAYNE PEOPLES, Director, Division of Administrative                                                                            
Services, Department of Corrections was invited to join the                                                                     
committee.  He explained that the medical needs have                                                                            
doubled since last year.  The cost for providing medical                                                                        
services are continuing to escalate.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-chair Parnell asked about pharmaceutical costs.  These                                                                       
were also continuing to rise.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Pugh advised the committee that they had done                                                                      
a mental health inmate assessment.  It was found there were                                                                     
special mental health cases in the probation and parole                                                                         
program.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips asked about the bed count and what it was                                                                      
at presently.  Commissioner Pugh said that the bed count                                                                        
was approximately four thousand two hundred sixty beds.                                                                         
There have been some interesting trends in prisoner                                                                             
population this year.  At the peak difference from last                                                                         
year, 1997 - 1998, there were about four hundred twenty                                                                         
inmates.  Then it leveled off towards the end of the year.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips asked about the inmates outside Alaska in                                                                      
Arizona.  Commissioner Pugh advised the out-of-state count,                                                                     
including Federal facilities and alcohol treatment related                                                                      
institutions.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips asked about the health care request.  "If                                                                      
the population hasn't increased what is happening?"                                                                             
Commissioner Pugh said there were approximately 400 more                                                                        
prisoners at the peak time.  "We are seeing older inmates                                                                       
and also an incoming population of younger prisoners."                                                                          
They were taking in more young people.  At last week's                                                                          
count there were about four hundred inmates, age twenty-one                                                                     
and younger.  For the record she noted two sixteen-year                                                                         
olds and two seventeen-year olds.  This younger population                                                                      
is growing and presenting special needs.  They were also                                                                        
seeing an increasing number of patients with heart ailments                                                                     
and other gastro ailments.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman said he was concerned in the meteoric rise in                                                                     
mental health costs for the inmates.  "Are we becoming                                                                          
smarter about what our mental health needs are or are we                                                                        
somehow getting billed for services?  What can we do to                                                                         
manage this?"  Commissioner Pugh said they were concerned                                                                       
about the same things.  The department was working on how                                                                       
to contain and control these costs.  They were also                                                                             
exploring either how to reduce them or at least keep them                                                                       
at the same level.  It had been ascertained that medical                                                                        
care services seem to be delivered at the lowest level in                                                                       
the outlying communities.  She explained that they were                                                                         
tending to revolving door inmates.  This involved trying to                                                                     
help these individuals get stabilized, however then they                                                                        
are released and go back to the outlying areas where no                                                                         
services are provided to help them continue in their                                                                            
rehabilitation and/or medical care.  Judge Rhodes in                                                                            
Anchorage handles the mental health cases so that these                                                                         
individuals do not become nameless.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman outlined an experience he personally had with                                                                     
an inmate from the Cook Inlet Pretrial facility.  The                                                                           
medical condition suffered by the inmate was not uncommon,                                                                      
however, medication was expensive.  Commissioner Pugh                                                                           
responded, noting that this problem was nation-wide.  The                                                                       
medication was expensive and therefore drives up their                                                                          
costs.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman said perhaps it should be considered whether                                                                      
or not these individuals should be institutionalized.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Pugh explained what services could be provided                                                                     
at the level they were presently budgeted at.  At this                                                                          
point Ms. McConnell spoke specifically to the budget for                                                                        
beds.  They were trying to transfer inmates in several                                                                          
large trips to Arizona as contracted with the Federal                                                                           
marshals.  She felt this was a successful undertaking.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peoples' also commented and said there had been one                                                                         
consolidated supplemental request from the Department of                                                                        
Public Safety and the Department of Corrections for the                                                                         
transport of prisoners.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Leman asked if there was any contract with the                                                                          
airlines for prisoner transportation.  He wanted to know if                                                                     
top dollar was being paid for these transports?  Mr.                                                                            
Peoples said he did not feel there was any special rates.                                                                       
For security reasons these transports are kept secret.                                                                          
They try to do them in small batches and if airlines are                                                                        
used these are done at full fare.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Pugh said they are still looking for the most                                                                      
inexpensive way to transport the prisoners out of state and                                                                     
felt that contracting with the Federal marshals was the                                                                         
best.  For instate flights they try to make sure they have                                                                      
several inmates at once so they can use charter.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips asked about the airline tickets.  "Do we                                                                       
pay full fare?"  Mr. Peoples said they did not have a fare                                                                      
arrangement with the airlines.  Senator Phillips asked if                                                                       
it was possible to negotiate a possible book fare for the                                                                       
transportation of the prisoners.  Commissioner Pugh said                                                                        
she would check into this matter.  Ms. McConnell said that                                                                      
Commissioner Boyer had looked extensively into this last                                                                        
year but Alaska Airlines was unwilling to provide any                                                                           
negotiated rates for State employees or for State use.                                                                          
Senator Phillips said that Alaska Airlines should provide                                                                       
better fares for such a big user as the State, or else find                                                                     
someone else.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Green asked for a breakdown regarding the health                                                                        
and medical requests of the inmates.  Commissioner Pugh                                                                         
said it was all out of state requests in this supplemental                                                                      
portion.  (Out of state inmates)  She said they did try to                                                                      
screen the inmates regarding their health and medical                                                                           
problems and special needs.  In addition, probation and                                                                         
parole officers also monitor these.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Adams asked about the balance.  Mr. Peoples did not                                                                     
know but said he would provide it.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Vendors concerned about furniture contacted Senator Leman.                                                                      
Furniture was being purchased at a premium rather than on a                                                                     
competitive market.  Therefore, there were no benefits.                                                                         
Commissioner Pugh said that a commission had been appointed                                                                     
to oversee this matter.  They had to insure there was a                                                                         
minimum impact regarding this.  The commission had contact                                                                      
with various office supply companies in the State who meet                                                                      
quarterly and then advertise their needs.  She will provide                                                                     
a breakdown to the committee.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peoples noted three reductions included in the                                                                              
supplemental.  They were a reduction of beds in CRC,  known                                                                     
culture reductions and delays in obtaining a bid in Nome.                                                                       
There was also delay in obtaining permits through the City                                                                      
and the Courts.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
In response to a question from Senator Leman,  Mr. Peoples                                                                      
said there had been difficulty in obtaining the beds in                                                                         
Fairbanks.  This resulted in the whole procurement of beds                                                                      
being delayed.  Senator Adams asked about the beds for the                                                                      
Bethel facility?  Commissioner Pugh said they were working                                                                      
on this matter.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-chair Parnell directed the Commissioner's attention to                                                                       
the memo from Senator Ward.  He asked her to please address                                                                     
these questions.  With respect to the committee she said                                                                        
she had not had time to look the memo over but will respond                                                                     
in writing to the committee as soon as possible.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-chair Parnell then turned to section four of SB 83,                                                                          
judgments and claims.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
BARBARA RITCHIE, Deputy Attorney General, Civil Section,                                                                        
Department of Law was invited to join the committee.  She                                                                       
gave a short overview of judgments and claims in general.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
(Tape #36 switched to Side B at log 593.)                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley briefly commented and said he would like a                                                                       
little more detail regarding these.  He referred to item                                                                        
these matters in writing.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley referred to Trustees for Alaska, Kachemak                                                                        
Bay Conservation Society vs. State of Alaska.  He said the                                                                      
committee should be examining a modification of this case.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Ritchie said it was now pending before the Supreme                                                                          
Court.  She explained the central issues of this case.  The                                                                     
case was remanded to the agency.  Senator Donley said the                                                                       
rules had evolved over time.  She explained the Supreme                                                                         
Court's interpretation of the case.  Senator Donley                                                                             
interrupted saying perhaps a statutory change was needed                                                                        
here.  Senator Leman concurred.  Senator Torgerson asked if                                                                     
the State assumed they were going to win the appeal?  Ms.                                                                       
Ritchie said they hoped they would win it.  She went on to                                                                      
explain that in the event the State loses, it may be at a                                                                       
lesser attorney fees amount.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Phillips asked what happened if the Legislature                                                                         
refused to fund any of these cases?  "Isn't there a                                                                             
separation of powers?  What would the Courts do?"  Ms.                                                                          
Ritchie said there would be a "separation of powers" issue.                                                                     
Senator Phillips said in that case, then, the Legislature                                                                       
would win because they were the ones appropriating the                                                                          
money for payment of the judgments.  Ms. Ritchie felt the                                                                       
matter would end up being litigated, however, if the                                                                            
Legislature refused to fund the judgments.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Donley referred to the apportionment of fees                                                                            
regarding item #5.  Perhaps the statute should be tightened                                                                     
up.  He strongly stated that someone should be held                                                                             
accountable.  There was no accountability by the                                                                                
individuals involved and further, no one was being held                                                                         
accountable for the payment of these huge judgments.  He                                                                        
did not want to see this situation continuing in the                                                                            
future.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-chair Parnell asked if there were any more questions on                                                                      
Kachemak Bay as he wanted to continue on to the Y2K                                                                             
section.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
There followed a brief at ease approximately 10:05 a.m.                                                                         
until 10:15 a.m.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-chair Parnell called HB 64.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                

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